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	<title>Comments on: On pregnant IAF pilots and Barbora-ic remarks</title>
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	<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/</link>
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		<title>By: Sriram</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-16336</link>
		<dc:creator>Sriram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-16336</guid>
		<description>Here is an article by Maj Gen Mrinal Suman - http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2010/02/women-in-the-armed-forces-misconceptions-and-facts.html

Some of it might come across as sexist but you have to remember that he talks from experience of having seen women picked as the best of the candidates train in the army.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an article by Maj Gen Mrinal Suman &#8211; <a href="http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2010/02/women-in-the-armed-forces-misconceptions-and-facts.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2010/02/women-in-the-armed-forces-misconceptions-and-facts.html</a></p>
<p>Some of it might come across as sexist but you have to remember that he talks from experience of having seen women picked as the best of the candidates train in the army.</p>
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		<title>By: Madhu &#124; INDImag.com</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3544</link>
		<dc:creator>Madhu &#124; INDImag.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3544</guid>
		<description>This is arguably one of the best and sanest discussion I have read. Kudos to all on that. My comment from another site where this very topic has taken a male basing turn is as below :

Empower the couple/people, they will make better choices..

I think the solution lies in not getting gender into the mix and leaving people to figure out what they want to do. Quite a few companies, including mine, have 12 weeks of leave for the primary care giver(PCG). PCG can be a father,mother,grandparent(who gained custody for various reasons) of a newborn/adopted/foster child. It includes people thrust into PCG position because of unfortunate fatalities/complications..

The 12 weeks can be split up as well. If the mother decides to go back to work in 6 weeks as her career demands it, the father gets to apply for a 12-6 = 6 weeks of balance from his employer. The couple can decide how they want it to work.

While a major part of parental leave is exercised by mothers, it is good to have the option where fathers can step in if mother cannot (whatever the reasons..) or split in some way to share the burden. I took 4 weeks off for both of my tots..

While the Vice Chief Air Marshal is a moron for his tone and lack of sensitivity, the fact of the matter is, if a pregnancy will result in 10-12 months of paid vacation (I know Canada has a 12 month policy) for the mother, it is unfair. Unless in the unfortunate incidents(death, disability etc during pregnancy) anything more than 3-4 months is being unfair.

I want to disagree with people who claim men do not help out  let the men who talk like this take care of a baby for just a week  it is a rash generalization. Quite a few fathers do very well. Away from India  very many dads(desis too) step up and do more equally as the moms. Unless we are talking of jerks and not fathers, it is a rash generalization..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is arguably one of the best and sanest discussion I have read. Kudos to all on that. My comment from another site where this very topic has taken a male basing turn is as below :</p>
<p>Empower the couple/people, they will make better choices..</p>
<p>I think the solution lies in not getting gender into the mix and leaving people to figure out what they want to do. Quite a few companies, including mine, have 12 weeks of leave for the primary care giver(PCG). PCG can be a father,mother,grandparent(who gained custody for various reasons) of a newborn/adopted/foster child. It includes people thrust into PCG position because of unfortunate fatalities/complications..</p>
<p>The 12 weeks can be split up as well. If the mother decides to go back to work in 6 weeks as her career demands it, the father gets to apply for a 12-6 = 6 weeks of balance from his employer. The couple can decide how they want it to work.</p>
<p>While a major part of parental leave is exercised by mothers, it is good to have the option where fathers can step in if mother cannot (whatever the reasons..) or split in some way to share the burden. I took 4 weeks off for both of my tots..</p>
<p>While the Vice Chief Air Marshal is a moron for his tone and lack of sensitivity, the fact of the matter is, if a pregnancy will result in 10-12 months of paid vacation (I know Canada has a 12 month policy) for the mother, it is unfair. Unless in the unfortunate incidents(death, disability etc during pregnancy) anything more than 3-4 months is being unfair.</p>
<p>I want to disagree with people who claim men do not help out  let the men who talk like this take care of a baby for just a week  it is a rash generalization. Quite a few fathers do very well. Away from India  very many dads(desis too) step up and do more equally as the moms. Unless we are talking of jerks and not fathers, it is a rash generalization..</p>
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		<title>By: Amey</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3543</link>
		<dc:creator>Amey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3543</guid>
		<description>This is not limited to the IAF. Most countries do allow women to enlist, but there are very few countries which put them in active combat roles, in any branch, on what traditional warfare would term as a frontline. So, it is not a fair to target just one man for that opinion.

Secondly, at the cost of sounding like a MCP, I agree with some of the points. A standing army (again, any branch) can hardly afford to have enlisted men going on a leave for extended period of 10(+?) months. Especially given the severe shortage of officers Indian armed forces are facing, this is a highly dangerous situation. Plus, unlike ranks in Army (or possibly Navy), piloting a fighter places severe physical demands on the pilot, the stresses you can hardly expect a pregnant woman to undergo. And that has nothing to do with the debate whether women are stronger/weaker than men.

I know that the &quot;officer shortage&quot; argument goes both ways, that the women officers would be one of the answers. Also, there are ways to go around the incapacity of a woman to fly during pregnancy. But looking from this angle, most of his comments hardly sound misogynistic to me, if only a bit exaggerated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not limited to the IAF. Most countries do allow women to enlist, but there are very few countries which put them in active combat roles, in any branch, on what traditional warfare would term as a frontline. So, it is not a fair to target just one man for that opinion.</p>
<p>Secondly, at the cost of sounding like a MCP, I agree with some of the points. A standing army (again, any branch) can hardly afford to have enlisted men going on a leave for extended period of 10(+?) months. Especially given the severe shortage of officers Indian armed forces are facing, this is a highly dangerous situation. Plus, unlike ranks in Army (or possibly Navy), piloting a fighter places severe physical demands on the pilot, the stresses you can hardly expect a pregnant woman to undergo. And that has nothing to do with the debate whether women are stronger/weaker than men.</p>
<p>I know that the &#8220;officer shortage&#8221; argument goes both ways, that the women officers would be one of the answers. Also, there are ways to go around the incapacity of a woman to fly during pregnancy. But looking from this angle, most of his comments hardly sound misogynistic to me, if only a bit exaggerated.</p>
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		<title>By: lekhni</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3542</link>
		<dc:creator>lekhni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3542</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t think you were the &quot;and others&quot;?  Maybe you were :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t think you were the &#8220;and others&#8221;?  Maybe you were <img src='http://elekhni.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nish</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3541</link>
		<dc:creator>Nish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3541</guid>
		<description>Oh great! I come back from the weekend and this forum is bombarded with comments, most of them conveying agreement with Shefaly and others. Really *nice* that no one bothered to point out that good old Nish had some decent comments too. I think I am going to sulk today! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh great! I come back from the weekend and this forum is bombarded with comments, most of them conveying agreement with Shefaly and others. Really *nice* that no one bothered to point out that good old Nish had some decent comments too. I think I am going to sulk today! <img src='http://elekhni.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: baven</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3540</link>
		<dc:creator>baven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3540</guid>
		<description>hi , just a few clarification regarding that women army officers presently in the forces are having the same risk as women fighter pilots. it is not true. presently all the women in army are in the supporting role which means that there is no likelihood of them being captured. i dont know of a single woman who has been in the infanty or armoured corps which are actually the fighting branches which is at high risk of being captured as POW. so women in the army at present have very low chances of being POW. however a woman fighter pilot (if it becomes a reality in near future) would have to operate over enemy territory and is likely to get shot down by enemy missiles. this would result in the fighter pilot to be captured alive  in enemy territory. i wouldnt like any of my sisters in that situation. i think we tend to be more bothered about being politically correct rather than being practical. the non entry of woman into some branches have nothing to do with gender inequality and more to do with being practical and sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi , just a few clarification regarding that women army officers presently in the forces are having the same risk as women fighter pilots. it is not true. presently all the women in army are in the supporting role which means that there is no likelihood of them being captured. i dont know of a single woman who has been in the infanty or armoured corps which are actually the fighting branches which is at high risk of being captured as POW. so women in the army at present have very low chances of being POW. however a woman fighter pilot (if it becomes a reality in near future) would have to operate over enemy territory and is likely to get shot down by enemy missiles. this would result in the fighter pilot to be captured alive  in enemy territory. i wouldnt like any of my sisters in that situation. i think we tend to be more bothered about being politically correct rather than being practical. the non entry of woman into some branches have nothing to do with gender inequality and more to do with being practical and sensible.</p>
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		<title>By: Veena</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3539</link>
		<dc:creator>Veena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3539</guid>
		<description>&quot;Imagine a squadron partially unable to get airborne because the commanding officer till yesterday has reported a pregnancy this morning. Anyone agrees?&quot;

Can&#039;t say I agree with this. The chain of command in the armed forces is set up such that missions are not dependent on the availability of a single person. The second in command is fully trained to pick up the threads and complete the exercise. Sorry, but the argument that you&#039;ll suddenly become pregnant and not be able to complete your duties is not correct. Anyone can fall sick or have an accident and take a day off!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Imagine a squadron partially unable to get airborne because the commanding officer till yesterday has reported a pregnancy this morning. Anyone agrees?&#8221;</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t say I agree with this. The chain of command in the armed forces is set up such that missions are not dependent on the availability of a single person. The second in command is fully trained to pick up the threads and complete the exercise. Sorry, but the argument that you&#8217;ll suddenly become pregnant and not be able to complete your duties is not correct. Anyone can fall sick or have an accident and take a day off!</p>
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		<title>By: Sriram</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3538</link>
		<dc:creator>Sriram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3538</guid>
		<description>drats. can&#039;t edit the previous comment. anyway, here is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/vice-chief-of-air-staff-cnn-ibn-non.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog post&lt;/a&gt; on the &#039;debate&#039; on cnn-ibn.

Our media isn&#039;t exactly a know-it-all thing. esp with anchors like the one in that debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>drats. can&#8217;t edit the previous comment. anyway, here is a <a href="http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/11/vice-chief-of-air-staff-cnn-ibn-non.html" rel="nofollow">blog post</a> on the &#8216;debate&#8217; on cnn-ibn.</p>
<p>Our media isn&#8217;t exactly a know-it-all thing. esp with anchors like the one in that debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Sriram</title>
		<link>http://elekhni.com/2009/11/on-pregnant-iaf-pilots-and-barbora-ic-remarks/comment-page-1/#comment-3537</link>
		<dc:creator>Sriram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elekhni.com/?p=1999#comment-3537</guid>
		<description>MPAs aren&#039;t fighters but they do take part in &#039;combat&#039; with surface and sub-surface naval elements when the need arises. I would say thats closer to combat than flying transport squadrons. Lady officers flying the Mig-29K off the Vikramaditya would of course be kick-ass :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MPAs aren&#8217;t fighters but they do take part in &#8216;combat&#8217; with surface and sub-surface naval elements when the need arises. I would say thats closer to combat than flying transport squadrons. Lady officers flying the Mig-29K off the Vikramaditya would of course be kick-ass <img src='http://elekhni.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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